tv Politics Nation MSNBC June 18, 2015 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT
reverend am sharpton starts right now. >> welcome to "politics nation." i'm live in charleston south carolina where tonight our hearts are broken. right now this plane is on the tarmac in north carolina. it's about to fly dylann roof the 21-year-old suspected of killing nine people in charleston last night, to fly him back here to south carolina. the nine innocent people were praying at mother emmanuel one of the oldest churches in north carolina. among the victims, the pastor of mother emanuel, reverend clementa pinckney. just over two months ago i marched with him against
senseless violence. now he has fallen to senseless violence. it's hard for me and the community to process. >> just unbelievable this has happened in the holy city. streets were blocked off and i said it can't be. i don't believe it. >> shock. i'm kind of numb. it's like i'm really not happening. this is our town square. you know it's just unbelievable. >> today we are seeing the community come together and mourn. police are calling the massacre that it was a hate crime. what has our society come to when people are gunned done in a prayer meeting in the sacred halls of a church? as i stood in prayer with local community leaders and met with
the mayor of charleston everyone has the same question. where can you go if you can't go to a church or a mosque or synagogue and have bible study or prayer and not be safe? this senseless, horrific act is something of a wake-up call at many levels. let me bring in craig melvin. craig, give us the latest on the investigation. >> as you indicated, the 21-year-old suspect on his way back to south carolina. he waived extradition. we can also tell you a short time ago there was a search in columbia where he lived, a search conducted at his father's home looking for any evidence looking for any sign any indication into what may have driven him to do something like this. we're told that investigators have completed the search although the crime scene tape is still up. he was also arrested earlier this year. there are two offense, the first
was a drug offense, the second was a trespassing offense. he has a record. hooves taken into custody this morning, reverend sharpton. as you can see there, without incident. we are told that they pulled over in shelby north carolina officials pulled over his hyundai elantra and they pulled it over because they were suspicious. that's all we got in terms of what drove them to that suspicion. but they pulled him over asked him a few questions and the video that you're seeing now is what happened next. reverend pinckney you knew him, i knew him as well. >> very well respected community leader. one of the things i was told that i didn't know until i was in the leaders meeting with the mayor is that they say this young man sat in the church for part of what was going on. >> an hour. >> for 45 minutes to an hour. and then got up let one lady go and started shooting. so this was a deliberate kind of
thought of thing that obviously raises questions all over the place, from hate till whether he's deranged. it's just unthinkable. >> ask fored for the pastor by name. reloaded five times. at the end of it apparently before he started shooting or perhaps during the shooting shouted out several racist things. this was a crime, reverend as you indicated, this was premeditated, this was planned. it's going to be very interesting to see over the next few days what investigators are able to find out. they think he acted alone but was he part of some sort of underground group? did he spend time in one of these chat rooms on these blogs? these are the kind of questions investigators are going to be asking. >> the mood is very tense, angry, sorrow, some people are more expressive than others.
no real threats of violence. we have people that are understandably outraged as all of us that knew any of the people were, people that i know here in the chapel had relatives that were killed. but i think that people are still in a state of shock, as i am. >> this is -- and here's the thing. you know there's a lot of folks watching and listening to this. this a community that was still reeling from the walter scott shooting. >> oh yeah. they're waiting on the trial. >> that's three, four miles from where we stand right now. this is a small city that has had to deal with a great deal of tragedy. >> i was glad to see people of all races come together and show unity. greg melvin thank you for your reporting. right now we are waiting for a plane to fly the suspect back to south carolina. earlier today president obama spoke about the tragedy and the church.
>> there is something particularly heartbreaking about a death happening in a place in which we seek solace and we seek peace. in a place of worship. mother emanuel is in fact more than a church. this is a sacred place in the history of charleston and in the history of america. >> right now i want to bring in todd rutherford south carolina's house minority leader and south carolina state representative david mack. they both knew reverend pinckney very well. first of all i'm sorry for your loss. >> thank you very much. >> let me start with you, representative rutherford. how are you in the community doing well? >> we're not doing well not only democrats and republicans, and people who didn't even know
him at all are in tears over the fact that he could be gunned down while pastoring people. >> we have seen a lot of battles together. i can't remember anything as horrific as this. >> the on thing ily thing i could go back to was the three little girls in birmingham alabama. the innocence in church in worship, where we can be safe. we tell our young kids not to go in joints in the more dangerous areas, but to go to church and this happens. we're going to have to go back to the drawing board and work across the board to really heal our community. >> now, tell us about reverend pinckney. he served with you, he served with representative ma mack. and from the encounters i had down through the years, which were not nearly as many as you all, he seemed to be a quiet
man. when he had something to say, everybody kind of i noticed would get silent because usually he didn't waste words. >> he didn't talk a lot but when he did, he had a booming voice, reminded you of barry white. but you could always tell when something came up it was a heated issue. >> he was just a nice guy. he cared about everything. and so truly just a gentleman. >> you're hearing all type of accolades. i think we said a very very good person. he drew a parallel between being a pastor and being an elected official in that he cared for people serving people. that will go down as i think the number one thing that makes him so great in our eyes and everybody that he touched.
>> now, there were five other members of the clergy among the nine that were dead. one, they were meeting with preparing ordination. some of those officials could have been harmed had they been there a little earlier. i mean it's just an absolute horrific thought that has so many different levels of just getting to you. >> what would lead this young man to believe that it okay to go into a church, to pray with people right before you gun them down? with him, it on seemed to encourage him to take nine lives, to leave blood in a church. it's a message we need to change in south carolina. >> and this is an historic church, we've been talking all day, a church founded in the 18th century, a church that was within of the places vgt investigated for planning slave
rebellion. this church, do you think the desecrating of this church the killing here was also part of a hate message? >> it has to be. referred to as mother emanuel in charleston, in the low country, very special, denmark, v.c. all the country involved in terms of our freedom. we're going to have to use that i think, as a rallying cry with all of us. where do we go from here? there's so much to do and there's so many layers reverend al to this a we need to have discussions on. racism weapons, mental health services. so many things we need to be able to deal with. >> and these are issues representative rutherford you and some of your kolcolleagues have been wrestling with. i think this brings home not on to charleston but to the nation the issues of race of mental
health, of issues of gun accessibility. >> south carolina is one of the few flags that doesn't have hate flag regulation. what we got to look at ourselves before we can lead this nation and country forward. >> we're seeing live scenes at the airport in north carolina where the suspect is being brought back to south carolina. he's waived extradition and is being brought back here to be charged and face trial. so many questions, representative rutherford and representative mack was he acting alone? was he a member of a hate group? what was his affiliation? none of this can be answered tonight. >> south carolina, he would have committed capital murder. he killed more than one person which makes him eligible for the
death penalty. in south carolina our justice system moves relatively quickly. they could probably try him on a capital murder case prior to any federal criminal case. >> these are live pictures of the suspect being brought on to the plane in north carolina. he is now being put on the plane to be transported back here to south carolina to stand and be charged and face all of the things you, representative rutherford, was outlooning are possible for him to be charged with. but as we watch this again, we still have to ask is it more than him? what could have led an individual to do it? is it more than an individual? there's so many unanswered questions here. >> i think one of the things we have to look at ourselves with regards to since having an african-american president,
there's been so much hate trez. there's been so much disrespect of the office and so many personal things thrown at the first lady and the children. we're better than that. all those things we have to work on in order to move us forward. >> i think that how we respond in a substantive way will show how good we are. we say we're better and i believe we're better and we have to show we're better. >> and we owe it to senator pinckney to show that we're better. >> i think when i was meeting with the mayor, i know they're setting up a fund people around the country are participating. but i think all of us need to really look in the collective mirror and say are we doing all we can to deal with these issues. >> and remember those other families, too. when we were out here last night, there was a young lady
and her grandmother was one of the ones that was gunned down. no one should have to wait in the dark of night knowing that their grandmother got gunned down in a church in a church service. >> the suspect has just boarded the plane. they have now put him on the plane to bring him back here to face charges and to continue this investigation into what other factors may have been involved in this horrific massacre that he apparently executed here last night at more emanuel ame church. i mean it's just again, unbelievable. you see them beginning to --
representative mack this is something again that i hope will make the whole nation pause and say are we really going to deal with these issues or are we just going to keep going from one incident to the next and one that gets worse than the last one? >> what i'm hopeful of i think back to during the civil rights movement and the visuals of beau connor, the visuals of the blasted church with three little girls and the country looked at that and felt ashamed and we made some movement. and as representative rutherford said and i agree, we owe it to the legacy of senator pinckney and the other members. >> representative rutherford and mack thank both of you for
we are live here in charleston south carolina. you are watching live shot as the suspect has boarded that plane and brought back to south carolina where he will be charged in the massacre of nine people here at the mother emanuel historic church. we're watching as the plane now prepares to take off and bring this suspect back to charleston where he will face charges and further investigation. we'll take a break and we'll be right back. to enjoy the morning ahead. aleve pm. the first to combine a sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last until the am. so you...
this photo taken last month shows him wearing a jacket linked to white supremacy groups. the bottom the flag of the former white controlled company of rhodesia. he made a lot of racist jokes but you don't really take them seriously like that. joining me now are candice delong, a former fbi criminal profiler and paul butler a former federal prosecutor. let me go to you first. let me ask you your reactions first you as a profiler and as one that have studied these kinds of situations. i don't know if anything this
horrific. what are you looking for in the profile? >> well one of the first things that struck me when i heard about this and looked into it was his age. he's rather young, much younger than we usually see people doing this kind of thing. and that led me to believe a possibility that based on things his uncle said to his sister -- >> that's the plane taking off -- you can continue. i just wanted to let our viewers know that was the plane that has now taken off from north carolina headed back here, brings bringing the suspect. go ahead, i'm sorry for interrupting. >> that's all right. a possibility exists in my mind for sure of mental illness
having emerged recently. there a couple of very serious mental illnesses that emerge in the late teens, early 20s. the behaviors that he was engaging in, not counting the shooting, but staying in his room all the time being very introverted, his own uncle told the boy's mother there's something wrong with him, very well could be a serious mental illness. we saw this with jared loughner the shooter who shot gabby giffords and several other people and in boulder, colorado who was in fine shape when he started his graduate program and mental illness emerged and we know what he's on trial for. >> we're hearing the possibility of also a hate crime case here when the attorney general made her statement. how do they build a hate crime
case in this? >> it's a sentencing enhancement. there's not a separate crime called a hate crime, but if you commit another crime and there's evidence that your intent was based on ill will towards specific groups like african-americans, then you get more time. up you get a tougher sentence if you're convicted. the other federal possibility, reverend, is terrorism. that's what the boston marathon shooter was charged with. i looked up the definition of domestic terrorism. it's when you commit a crime with the intent to intimidate a civilian population. the furst domestic terrorism law in this country was based on cases like this. it was designed to get the ku klux klan when they were violent against african-americans. i think if we think of this as a terrorism tact rather than a garden variety crime, even murder i think that will send an important message to the
country. >> let me follow up on that. so if you could deal with terrorism as well as the murders and the hate crime, how do you put those pieces together clearly the prosecutors have to be methodical despite all of the passion and outrage many of us are feeling. what are they going to have to do with the case? >> the federal charges would be brought by the attorney general and of course there would be an historical resonance with the first african-american female attorney general someone raised in the civil rights movement being in charge of this prosecution. the federal prosecution would take precedence over the state prosecution. what they're doing now is two things. they're interrogating the shooter, the alleged shooter, first of all to see if there's a plot or conspiracy, if other people are in danger. the other thing they're doing is try to make a criminal case. so if they can get him to talk
if he says that he doesn't need a lawyer if he's willing to talk then they are building evidence. either way, reverend if it state or federal, we're almost certainly looking at a capital case, a death penalty case. >> how do we know from his profile whether he was operating with other people whether he was a member of a group? i cited some of what we've already heard about some of his facebook postings. does that tell us anything on whether or not there was any connection here or are we dealing with a lone man, a young man, who was deranged? >> it looks to me like we're probably dealing with a young man who was -- is deranged may have at one time or possibly still a member of a group, possibly on the fringe of that group. sometimes these hate groups and
domestic terrorism groups they kick people out who are too crazy. and this has happened before. one of the things i wondered al, the picture that you were referring to of him standing in front of a swamp and looking very sullen and with apartheid patches on his jacket my question is who took that picture? was it someone in a group that he was with? why didn't people see what was wrong? and we may find out some people did see what was wrong but didn't act properly. >> reverend if i may, i think we need to push back against this narrative that this man is deranged. that's true but everyone who kills is deranged. often if it's a white shooter, we tend to think they must have a mental illness, whereas if it's an african-american, he's a
thug, if it's a muslim or arab he's a terrorist. he is a mass murderer and a terrorist. >> all right. candice delong and paul -- >> he's a mass murderer but he also is deranged. >> a plane carrying the suspect is on the way back to south carolina leaving moments ago. so what happens next for the suspect in we'll suspect? we'll talk about that next. meet the world's newest energy superpower. surprised? in fact, america is now the world's number one natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one in oil. because hydraulic fracturing technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. supporting millions of new jobs. billions in tax revenue... and a new century of american energy security. the new energy superpower? it's red, white and blue. log on to learn more.
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like this too many times. communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times. we don't have all the facts but we do know that once again innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their happened on a gun. we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. it doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency. and it is in our power to do something about it. and at some point it's going to be important for the american people to come to grips with. and for us to be able to shift how we think about the issue of gun violence collectively. >> yes, it is time to shift how
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moments ago the suspect of the charleston massacre boarded a plane en route to south carolina. joining me now is nbc's jay gray. jay, what can you tell us about the next step for this suspect? >> reverend good evening. we know he's being flown back to charleston likely will not appear in court this evening but at some point will face charges in this case likely murder charges to start things off. this is the beginning of what will be a very long and detailed investigation. that's what we're hearing from those or the ground here. we're just starting this process. do we think we have a lot to work with? obviously we have some surveillance video, there's evidence that's been pulled from
the car. we've got a lot to work with but we're going to make sure we do this the right way and carry it through to its fruition. that's the next step here. we'll likely see him in court tomorrow where for the first time he'll officially hear the charges, the beginning of a long and very important process. >> nbc's jay gray thank you for your reporting. so what happens now? when will the alleged shooter face justice? >> he was arrested in shelby, north carolina because of a traffic stop. a citizen alerted law enforcement to suspicious activity. he was cooperative with the officer who stopped him. right now he's in shelby north carolina. there will be a process we have to go through to get him back here. we'll be working that very
diligently. >> now i want to bring in matthew fogg retired chief deputy u.s. marshall. matthew, roof was arrested less than 14 hours after the shooting. what does that tell you about his plan? >> it tells me his plans, if he had any, went awry. police did great police work by pulling this monster over and stopping him. when he went into that church he clearly had plans to kill the folks he did, to do what he did but thank god he got captured and police did great work in pulling him over. one thing i >> one thing i noted he had a gun in the car.
are you surprised they pulled him out without incident? >> yes, i am. but he got his point across to bring home racial terror to particularly make a point that this country is not the way that he thinks it should be and probably a lot of other people are thinking the same way. i'm just glad that he got caught and hopefully he'll understand the full brunt of the law. >> what else are the police looking at right now? >> they're looking at anybody this man has talked to anybody he's what association with especially when you talk about hate groups and there are a lot of them popping up. they're popping up around the country. we have people affiliated with some of these hate groups that to my understanding might even be in law enforcement. we have to look like any type of communication this man has had, who he talked to and what made him actually carry out his plans to come into this church. my condolences go out to the
families and the state senators but law enforcement came through and got this man quick. >> matthew fogg thank you for your time together. >> coming up the incredible history of mother emanuel church what it means to south carolina and why it may have been targeted. and a plane carrying the suspect has taken off en route to south carolina. we're following that breaking news ahead. i like my seafood like i like my vacations: tropical. and during red lobster's island escape, three new dishes take me straight to the islands. like the ultimate island seafood feast, with crab, lobster and jumbo shrimp. all you have to do... get here while you still can. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic
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mother emanuel is more than a church. it was a church found by african-americans seeking liberty. it was a church that was burned to the ground because its worshippers worked to end slavery. when there were laws banning all black church gatherings they con dubbed services in secret. >> president obama sharing the pivotal role mother emanuel church has played in the history of south carolina and our nation. the founders of this church first met almost 200 years ago. it is the oldest ame congregation in the south. it was the heart of a slavery bellion in -- of a slave
slaveslave slave rebellion in 1892. reverend pinckney had been pastor of the church and he talked proudly of the vision of the church and its future. >> where you are is a very special place in charleston. it's a very special place because this church and this site, this area has been tied to the history of life of african-americans since about the early 1800s. it really is about freedom, quality and the pursuit of happiness, and that's what church is all about. >> joining me now are reverend nelson from charity missionary baptist church in charleston and
senator marlin kimpson. it was just about two months ago i was here with you around this case that still has people concerned about violence a plan with a camera. how do you respond to all of this? >> well i appreciate the question because he was a giant of a man. when we were almost at an impassion on the senate floor for the body camera legislation, he took to the senate floor and told us about doubting thomas and many people would not have believed that a police officer in charleston county in 2015 would shoot an officer -- would shoot a citizen in the back.
and it was that speech that crystallized a critical moment for this monumental legislation that we passed and, as you know the body camera was signed into law. and me and reverend rivers stood next to senator pinckney at the bill signing. >> and reverend rivers said the vigil and your charity and work with others in civil rights give people around the country, though, the significance of the church. the president spoke about it today. mother emanuel is an historic landmark in terms of america, black america in particular. >> absolutely reverend. mother emanuel is that mother emanuel. those of us who grew up in charleston know about the great preachers that came through mother emanuel, how central it was to the movement and for me personally, i got married at
mother emanuel. my wife's family is at mother emanuel. last night when we got the word one of our first concerns was my sister-in-law, she goes to bible group every week. to think of mother emanuel being a target of hate and violence it took us all back because if you're not safe at mother emanuel, where are you safe? reverend pinckney was a guide guy. he was a tremendous brother. >> how do you now give people a sense that they can be safe when they see something like this in bible class, in church? >> well, we have to as the ceremony today underscored, we have to galvanize to make sure that in spite of the tragedy, something positive comes out of
this. what we will do is continue to have the doors of the church open to all. we should not change the way we welcome people to christ we certainly should be more vigilant. but if we change our ways then the shooter wins. and we will not let him win. >> in our meeting with the mayor, you will have tomorrow speaking and representing all of our civil rights organizations and others where do we go forward in terms of trying to make sure this is a moment that leds to some real change in how this country deals with race and mental health and gun violence? >> today our bishop our friend spoke and ended by talking about the elephant in the room. he said how can we talk about
having guns and liquor in the same place and expect things not to go bad? how can you ask people to be allowed to bring guns to church and be safe? we have to talk about that. the enemy can't win. we can't let them have it. >> one of our concerns are the families as we deal with the trauma, god only knows what they're dealing with. how are the families and obviously that is an almost question that's expected when you know -- what is going to be done to support them going forward? >> the families gathered at the embassy suites last night where the city and the county set up a victims emergency assistance center. there is also money being raised to make sure -- we're going to
have nine funerals. we want to make sure that the families have ample resources so that they can bury their loved ones without the financial hardships. this city is a resilient city and just as we responded in the aftermath of the water scott shooting we will respond again in a positive way. >> how will the faith community be able to deal with the spiritual needs of people? because you're not just dealing with young people here. in fact many of them were full grown that were killed. so everyone seems traumatized, shaken that i talked with today, people stopping me in the street just talking. how will the faith community deal with the spiritual needs of a community that has been shaken to its core? >> they started right away last night, reverend. when i was traveling trying to get back many minister already came i talked to them on the phone while they were in front of the church at the embassy suites talking to the family. they've enveloped them embraced
them. but we're not going to be here for the short haul but for the long haul. when the cameras go away the families are still here and the grieving continues, we will be here. personally i knew almost all of them. when they had to stand outside to get the news the husband waiting for word on his wife the young man waiting to find out the word on his grandmother, that was terrorizing for the families. we have to understand that we cannot leave them alone at the hour of need and we will mott leave them alone. >> i saw an outpouring from all communities, all races, even when i arrived at the church and when i went to see the mayor. i think that there is in this case as in the scott case currently those that have said this kind of hate and this kind of behavior is something that is
despicable. >> i would agree, reverend. in fact today's service there was the young, there was the old, there were people of all colors. we are starting to see donations come in from businesses governmental institutions. the nation is yearning for us to fully embrace race relations as a simple issue like the president said and get tough on guns. that's what we will be attempting to do with we get back to the legislature in january. take a serious look at our state's gun laws. >> thank you, both of you, for being with us. i'm going to take a break and we will be right back. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue
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we close tonight by thinking about the victims. they ranged in ages from 26 to 87 all killed while in bible study, engaged in worship at bible study. reverend clementa pinckney was pastor of the church. he left behind a wife and two children. two years ago in the very same church where he was killed, he talked about his role as pastor. >> our calling is not just within the walls of the congregation, but we are part of the life and community in which our congregation resides. and so many have made great strides and we've encouraged others to do so.
>> nor vickanother victim cynthia hurd she worked as a librarian and another victim he graduated college just last year. i was stunned because i knew some and i was just as stunned with those i didn't know. because what i know too well is that this nation cannot sit by and keep going from incident to incident massacre to massacre. we must not only react, we must act. we must act on the issues that we see in this particular circumstance in this particular crisis, race guns mental health. let's quit talking at them and
do something about it. until then we'll just stay tuned till the next incident. i'm al sharpton. thanks for watching. "hardball" starts right now. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. in cold blood, that's how reverend clementa pinckney and eight others were murdered last night. police have arrested an identified suspected. he was apparently acted alone according to police. he is en route right now by airplane from north carolina. we are awaiting his arrival in charleston. witnesses spoke to reverend clementa's cousin described in chilling detail